chelmsfordhammer
5:12 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Stewie, i agree that the board should take all the flak for the cavalho debacle , that was purely down to them .
But you've just said bilic identified who he wanted to sign and the board didn't deliver so we can assume then that all the other players we've signed bilic at least had some say in those signings or did he just let the board go out and sign them . Either way he's at least partly responsible for the current squad we have.
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Full Claret Jacket
5:07 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Frankly there are no excuses - he's had time, he's had money, he's had support from the fans. I can't see why you'd stick with someone who isn't doing it when if it was a player not performing they are got rid of. When is the penny going to drop.
The football is absolute dross. You would have thought after 3 years you might have players who look like they know each other playing on the pitch but they never have and since we lost Payet who was somewhat lazy but had the ability to win us a game in a moment of brilliance, we've looked devoid of any real spark or invention.
Even in the 'good' season there were plenty of really awful halves of games saved or made look closer by a bit of magic.
We need a change, the players need to know what they are doing and work hard at a system or systems they actually fit into.
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The Kronic
5:05 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Bar a few exceptions, none of us know who was or wasn't a Bilic signing due to that meddling creepy cunt Sullivan
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stewie griffin
5:03 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Other than Snodgrass, I don't think any of them are 'shit'. The rest are all average/mid table Premier League players. The sort of players who'll improve you sufficiently to stand still in a league where everyone else also signs players and improves. By hook or by crook, we finished 11th last season, so our form bears that out. Personally I said 12th/13th before the season started, and that's still what I expect - regardless of who the manager is.
Its also worth mentioning that - as much as I hate the place - we've played 4 games at home and 6 away.
As for transfers, I'd be happy to slaughter rbilic for them if I thought he was making them. But what we know, for a fact, because the owners told us (laughably in an attempt to defend themselves) is that they aren't exclusively down to bilic. He correctly identified that we have a weakness in central midfield. He identified the player to plug the gap. He sold players in order to fund the transfer. The owners bid slightly more than half of his release clause. So yeah, we can blame Bilic if you like - but the evidence, so kindly provided by our great leaders, suggests otherwise.
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chelmsfordhammer
4:58 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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And yes, I had noticed everyone else has been investing as well.
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chelmsfordhammer
4:56 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Stewie, if all those players are as shit as you Claim then again bilic must take some of the responsibility for signing them unless you re saying he had no say in it and if that is the case he should again take some responsibility for accepting such a transfer policy where he has no say over who we buy.
I don’t think any of those players are world beaters but I do think most of them are half decent and are certainly better than what they’ve served up whilst playing for us . Zaza being the best example of that.
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stewie griffin
4:49 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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"zaza, feghouli,snodgrass,analtovic and ayew"
that's exactly what i'm talking about. Maybe its the exotic names that fool people?
Zaza - had precisely no desire to be here. Also had a ridiculous loan clause relating to numbers of appearances. But let's assume he is a great player - the PL history is littered with people who failed here but excelled in other leagues. Its hardly a unique situation
Feghouli - a free transfer, let go, by a basket case Valencia side - managed by Gary NEVILLE - who finished somewhere near the bottom of la liga. Had a good world cup once. So did gary breen
Snodgrass - he is shit. He's always been shit, and always will be shit. A top half championship/bottom 3 permier league player. How do I know this? Because that's where he's spent his whole fucking career. Patronosingly named Hull's best player in a side managed by Mike PHELAN, the improved dramatically after he left. Hooked after an hour today for being shit.
Arnautovic - bombed out of every big club he's been at because of a bad attitude. 'The attitude of a child' - Jose Mourinho. 'Craziest guy I ever managed' - Steve McClaren. 'Marko makes me look like the most boring guy in the world' - Mario Balotelli. Known at Stoke for performing well once every 5 games
Ayew - scored 10 goals before xmas for Swansea, and 2 from xmas til May. He didn't magically become shit when he came to us, he'd been shit for 6 months before that. Swansea fans couldn't give a shit when he left and were delighted to get 20 million for him.
Yes, I agree we have better squads than Brighton & Huddersfield, and I think you can throw in Bournemouth as well. Beyond that, I think we're on a par with everyone else. Because in case people hadn't noticed, while we've been investing, so has everyone else - crazy isn't it when everyone has more than £100 million coming in. But, as we've seen ourselves twice in recent times - the momentum from promotion can easily carry over and you can punch well above your weight.
On balance, yes, I would replace him - but a new manager isn't going to make good footballers out of some of this lot. Its yet another rebuilding job. What I don't know, honestly, is how much Bilic is accountable for on the transfer front.
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chelmsfordhammer
4:41 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Stewie, to say we re just as likely to be relegated as the other 14 teams bacuse no one in the top six would want any of our players bar lanzini is a bit desperate to say the least. To say teams like huddersfield and Brighton have got as good a squads as we have just because only lanzini would be wanted by the top six sides is a bit misleading considering 4 of our players have played on a regular basis for top six sides before they joined us and it wasn’t that long ago that two of our defenders were regularly being linked with top six sides.
I agree with you that bilic can’t be blamed for stupid errors on the pitch but there’s a hell of a lot he can be blamed for and not getting the best out of the players he’s got is one of them.
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Kaiser Zoso
4:39 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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No one in their right mind would dream of blaming the manager for that, though?
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DJH
4:39 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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stewie griffin 4:00 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
Bang on, I also think a lot of people mistakenly think a good player is the same as the right player.
For example Hernandez is undoubtedly a better player than say someone like Benike Afobe but it might he has the style of play that is perfect for how we play as a team, yet we rarely make signings on that basis instead it seems to be based on individual abilities rather than team qualities.
Instead of recruiting or developing players that fit some profile of how we play we seem to accumulate a random group of players that rarely compliment each other so often we are finding tactics that suit players or equally adapting players to suit the tactics and never end up with any consistent style of play.
This recruitment might be Bilic's fault but as the constant scatter gun transfer approach to transfers has been a problem before he arrived I same how doubt it.
Bilic might the help the situation but we need to wake up to the fact we are a unnecessary difficult club to manage because of how the club operate off the field.
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stewie griffin
4:32 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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In fairness I did forget my biggest gripe... the absolutely woeful football we're playing
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Megatron
4:32 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Our squad is fucking shit. We simply haven’t replaced the likes of Carlton Cole, Joey O’Brien, Amalfitano, Jenkinson, Tomkins and Kevin Nolan, that had us in the top four at Christmas a few years back.
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Hermit Road
4:28 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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To be fair, my timing could’ve been better.
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Hermit Road
4:26 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Stewie, you seem determined to absolve our dogshit manager of any responsibility. If the squad is shit, it’s down to him. If it isn’t down to him that the squad is shit, then maybe he should grow a pair of bollocks and walk. I agree about Palace having a decent first team, and I hate that the owners of our club don’t show the same ambition to spend as they did, but our squad is made to look worse than it is because our manager is fucking clueless and doesn’t get them in good enough physical shape to last a game, nor does he set them up tactically to compete.
Point taken, the board are shit, but so is the manager and the worse thing the board are doing at the moment is stick with him.
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boleynkid
4:26 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Shows the fine margins though. Late goals conceded at Burnley, Palace & Southampton. If it hadn't been for them we would be top half. Understand the blame being aimed at Bilic but individual mistakes are costing us dear.
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stewie griffin
4:25 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Dancer - I'm quite happy to be critical where it's deserved. Fitness and constant chopping and changing are the two areas of biggest criticism for me, and why I believe it's time for someone else to have a go.
You could reasonably lump in transfers to that too, but given what we know about carvalho and what happened there, it's probably a tenuous link.
What I don't do is criticise things that are nothing to do with him. Ogbonna and Antonio yesterday cost us points - not bilic it's pretty obvious. And it's absolutely desperate trying to somehow link appalling decision making in a game to the manager. They get paid plenty, they're grown adults, no fucking excuses. Ironically, people were quite happy to slaughter Carroll a few weeks ago but since then obiang, ogbonna and Antonio have all been guilty of far worse mistakes, and far more costly mistakes at that, and yet somehow Those are blamed on the manager.
Mostly because those 3 are WHO favourites. Carroll, noble and bilic are fair game though. For anything. It's fucking pathetic
As for our squad, I'll respectfully disagree - with the exception of lanzini who would anyone in the top 6 want?? No one. That tells you where we are. Same as every other club outside the top 6 - as likely to be relegated as we are to finish 7th.
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nychammer
4:18 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Totally agree. We shouldn’t be going down with this side. It’s all down to how Bilic is setting us up to play. We’re doomed if it continues, and worse we’ve seen it all before as fans at this club. Sack Bilic or seriously risk getting relegated.
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chelmsfordhammer
4:14 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Stewie, I never said we had a squad better than most but we have invested in players and when we signed most of those players they came with a half decent reputation, zaza, feghouli,snodgrass,analtovic and ayew to name a few. Not one of those players looked as good once they signed for us.
It could be argued that they weren’t the players we needed and there is probably some truth in that but if they weren’t, the manager must once again take some of the blame.
I don’t think we’ve got anywhere a top six squad but we have got a squad that should be sitting quite comfortably in mid table.
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Private Dancer
4:12 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Stewie - It's very clear that for whatever reason you refuse to critisize Bilic, and you are always banging the same drum about our squad, and btw Palace shouldn't be bottom of the league with their squad.
I'd say 2 things...One, our squad is good enough for top 10, just look at our bench yesterday. Two, Bilic is a shit manager.
I'd expect you you to disagree with both..
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boleynkid
4:11 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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Those that want him gone though need to be careful what they wish for. No guarantees we would replace him with better and there are plenty of disagreements over who to bring in.
Personally I would say someone like Mancini but every chance we would get someone that not everyone is happy with and then there would be many who would be saying we should have kept Bilic.
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simon.s
4:04 Sun Oct 29
Re: Sack Bilic
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PD - a season ticket at West Ham has always been a lottery. You never know what you are getting from one season to the next. Maybe that’s part of the appeal of this club.
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